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	<title>Comments on: Why I hate evolutionary psychology</title>
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	<description>Scientific Romances and Other Curiosities from the Antipodes</description>
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		<title>By: The prisoners of time</title>
		<link>http://www.talkingsquid.net/archives/226/comment-page-1#comment-58823</link>
		<dc:creator>The prisoners of time</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Apr 2010 03:34:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.talkingsquid.net/archives/226#comment-58823</guid>
		<description>How much is a solution worth?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How much is a solution worth?</p>
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		<title>By: kevin denny</title>
		<link>http://www.talkingsquid.net/archives/226/comment-page-1#comment-50828</link>
		<dc:creator>kevin denny</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Aug 2009 09:31:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.talkingsquid.net/archives/226#comment-50828</guid>
		<description>Kanazawa&#039;s work is the epitome of bad science and there are numerous journal papers showing this clearly including 6 papers in the British journal of Health Psychology, 2007, vol 12 (2); also papers by Gelman &amp; by me in other places. I have yet to see a response, presumably because there is none.
 A 2008 paper by him in Intelligence (ironically) implicitly assumed the earth was flat. No kidding.
Evolutionary psychology does have a lot to offer (how could the brain not be subject to evolutionary pressures?) but it attracts some terrible work which gives it as bad name. The strategy seems to be this: You find some correlation in the population say red haired men are more likely to be married to short women. You think of some evolutionary story &quot;consistent&quot; with it  but cannot be really tested because we don&#039;t really have data going back nearly far enough. Throw in some pretentious nonsense and dodgy statistics. Hey presto you have a journal article and you are well on your way to a senior position in a British university!
Shame.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kanazawa&#8217;s work is the epitome of bad science and there are numerous journal papers showing this clearly including 6 papers in the British journal of Health Psychology, 2007, vol 12 (2); also papers by Gelman &amp; by me in other places. I have yet to see a response, presumably because there is none.<br />
 A 2008 paper by him in Intelligence (ironically) implicitly assumed the earth was flat. No kidding.<br />
Evolutionary psychology does have a lot to offer (how could the brain not be subject to evolutionary pressures?) but it attracts some terrible work which gives it as bad name. The strategy seems to be this: You find some correlation in the population say red haired men are more likely to be married to short women. You think of some evolutionary story &#8220;consistent&#8221; with it  but cannot be really tested because we don&#8217;t really have data going back nearly far enough. Throw in some pretentious nonsense and dodgy statistics. Hey presto you have a journal article and you are well on your way to a senior position in a British university!<br />
Shame.</p>
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		<title>By: Nick</title>
		<link>http://www.talkingsquid.net/archives/226/comment-page-1#comment-19253</link>
		<dc:creator>Nick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Jul 2007 07:41:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.talkingsquid.net/archives/226#comment-19253</guid>
		<description>There&#039;s a fairly extensive demolition of the article over at &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.salon.com/mwt/broadsheet/2007/07/19/psychology_today/index.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Salon&lt;/a&gt; today.

Highlights include:

One of the authors has been dead for 4 years, and the other one got in the shit last year for publishing an article that rather charmingly suggested that Africans are poor because they&#039;re stupid.

I prefer the dead one, personally.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There&#8217;s a fairly extensive demolition of the article over at <a href="http://www.salon.com/mwt/broadsheet/2007/07/19/psychology_today/index.html" rel="nofollow">Salon</a> today.</p>
<p>Highlights include:</p>
<p>One of the authors has been dead for 4 years, and the other one got in the shit last year for publishing an article that rather charmingly suggested that Africans are poor because they&#8217;re stupid.</p>
<p>I prefer the dead one, personally.</p>
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		<title>By: Chris Lawson</title>
		<link>http://www.talkingsquid.net/archives/226/comment-page-1#comment-19053</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Lawson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Jul 2007 13:18:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.talkingsquid.net/archives/226#comment-19053</guid>
		<description>Nick: While I don&#039;t think a journalist has to have formal qualifications in a subject to write about it, I do think that a journal called Psychology Today might find it useful to have some qualified people on their editorial staff. But that wasn&#039;t the big point. I was really drawing attention to the &quot;life of hard knocks&quot; special pleading, which to my cynical mind is a telltale sign that the persons themselves feel their background is inadequate to the task.

Anastasia: I&#039;m surprised you can&#039;t recall any academic with an active outside life. Most academics I know have as broad a set of interests as anyone else and are just as likely to hold forth on the weekend&#039;s footy results or the latest movies as they are to talk about their work. Also, the Skinner school of psychology dealt largely with rats and the &quot;black box&quot; model of mind, but it&#039;s not true of psychology in general. I&#039;d point anyone who thinks psychology is an academic wasteland to two of the most important scientific studies ever undertaken: Zimbardo&#039;s Stanford Prison Experiment and Milgram&#039;s studies of authority -- both undertaken on human subjects. If the US military had taken the effort to understand these studies, there would have been no Abu Ghraib scandal.

Olivia: IMHO the problem with evolutionary psychology is the ease with which people incorporate shaky hypotheses as self-evident explanations of human behaviour, usually with a large degree of wish fulfilment. I was particularly taken by this exemplary quote from the introduction to Tooby and Cosmides&#039;s 2005 &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.psych.ucsb.edu/research/cep/papers/bussconceptual05.pdf&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Introduction to Evolutionary Psychology&lt;/a&gt;: &quot;The programs comprising the human mind were designed by natural selection ... Knowing this allows evolutionary psychologists to approach the study of the mind like an engineer.&quot; Now, it seems to me that the history of psychology has been terribly unkind to people who tried to co-opt engineering principles to the subject, and so has evolutionary theory (imagined engineering is the fallacy at the root of intelligent design). I guess that Tooby and Cosmides want to believe that evolutionary approaches to psychology bring nice reductive tools to the scientist&#039;s kit. They seem to be unaware of the difficulty that evolutionary theorists have in deciding the adaptive qualities of many anatomical and molecular features of simpler creatures than humans. I believe that any given hypothesis in evolutionary psychology, no matter how ingenious and seductive, has an awful lot of uphill trudging to be accepted as an established explanation.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nick: While I don&#8217;t think a journalist has to have formal qualifications in a subject to write about it, I do think that a journal called Psychology Today might find it useful to have some qualified people on their editorial staff. But that wasn&#8217;t the big point. I was really drawing attention to the &#8220;life of hard knocks&#8221; special pleading, which to my cynical mind is a telltale sign that the persons themselves feel their background is inadequate to the task.</p>
<p>Anastasia: I&#8217;m surprised you can&#8217;t recall any academic with an active outside life. Most academics I know have as broad a set of interests as anyone else and are just as likely to hold forth on the weekend&#8217;s footy results or the latest movies as they are to talk about their work. Also, the Skinner school of psychology dealt largely with rats and the &#8220;black box&#8221; model of mind, but it&#8217;s not true of psychology in general. I&#8217;d point anyone who thinks psychology is an academic wasteland to two of the most important scientific studies ever undertaken: Zimbardo&#8217;s Stanford Prison Experiment and Milgram&#8217;s studies of authority &#8212; both undertaken on human subjects. If the US military had taken the effort to understand these studies, there would have been no Abu Ghraib scandal.</p>
<p>Olivia: IMHO the problem with evolutionary psychology is the ease with which people incorporate shaky hypotheses as self-evident explanations of human behaviour, usually with a large degree of wish fulfilment. I was particularly taken by this exemplary quote from the introduction to Tooby and Cosmides&#8217;s 2005 <a href="http://www.psych.ucsb.edu/research/cep/papers/bussconceptual05.pdf" rel="nofollow">Introduction to Evolutionary Psychology</a>: &#8220;The programs comprising the human mind were designed by natural selection &#8230; Knowing this allows evolutionary psychologists to approach the study of the mind like an engineer.&#8221; Now, it seems to me that the history of psychology has been terribly unkind to people who tried to co-opt engineering principles to the subject, and so has evolutionary theory (imagined engineering is the fallacy at the root of intelligent design). I guess that Tooby and Cosmides want to believe that evolutionary approaches to psychology bring nice reductive tools to the scientist&#8217;s kit. They seem to be unaware of the difficulty that evolutionary theorists have in deciding the adaptive qualities of many anatomical and molecular features of simpler creatures than humans. I believe that any given hypothesis in evolutionary psychology, no matter how ingenious and seductive, has an awful lot of uphill trudging to be accepted as an established explanation.</p>
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		<title>By: Olivia</title>
		<link>http://www.talkingsquid.net/archives/226/comment-page-1#comment-19020</link>
		<dc:creator>Olivia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Jul 2007 09:23:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.talkingsquid.net/archives/226#comment-19020</guid>
		<description>Why didn&#039;t the article tie in the connection between misogyny and polygyny? The rape rates in Utah are higher than the rest of the US because the polygynist culture doesn&#039;t allow women to voice their opinions and sees women as incubators with little else to contribute. Surely, the misogyny in Muslim polygynist cultures plays into the higher levels of aggression. When you grow up being able to kill your sister for her being raped, you pretty much can kill yourself and hundreds of others without a thought.
I used to enjoy evolutionary psychology, but now as a woman I just find it depressing and ominous. It makes me never want to get married or give birth feeling that men are opportunists. Why are there no articles on women&#039;s biological desire to become prostitutes to get men to question everything good and decent?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Why didn&#8217;t the article tie in the connection between misogyny and polygyny? The rape rates in Utah are higher than the rest of the US because the polygynist culture doesn&#8217;t allow women to voice their opinions and sees women as incubators with little else to contribute. Surely, the misogyny in Muslim polygynist cultures plays into the higher levels of aggression. When you grow up being able to kill your sister for her being raped, you pretty much can kill yourself and hundreds of others without a thought.<br />
I used to enjoy evolutionary psychology, but now as a woman I just find it depressing and ominous. It makes me never want to get married or give birth feeling that men are opportunists. Why are there no articles on women&#8217;s biological desire to become prostitutes to get men to question everything good and decent?</p>
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		<title>By: Anastasia</title>
		<link>http://www.talkingsquid.net/archives/226/comment-page-1#comment-18891</link>
		<dc:creator>Anastasia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Jul 2007 03:10:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.talkingsquid.net/archives/226#comment-18891</guid>
		<description>There are many publications (not journals) that boast many experienced people, and there is no real way to assuage this. I&#039;m always amused when evolutionary psychologists proclaim that men always practiced polygamy, the need to impregnate so many women and so on always screeches inside my head. No one can truly know. all the innuendo leads to the other offshoot, pop psychology and self help books written by people with questionable qualifications (ie John Gray). It&#039;s not surprising why humans still argue, and create wars, with all the suppositions that linger. At uni, I&#039;d never really known a practicing academic to have, what others call, a real life outside of their lab rat trials. Many became animated when they discussed their precious rodents (what a lot of psychology is based on, only because it&#039;s unethical to use humans). I&#039;m always wary when any article is titled &#039;Politically Incorrect,&#039; only because it&#039;s usually written by a fence sitter, one who is afraid to tread into darker waters.
Mind you, many of the societies that are discussed (polygamous, polygynous - every single polyunsaturated idea on sexuality) have died out or have assimiliated into the typical nuclear family unit (on the outside, for appearances sake) those that survive aren&#039;t based on western notions (of sexuality) or as sexuality is viewed today.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There are many publications (not journals) that boast many experienced people, and there is no real way to assuage this. I&#8217;m always amused when evolutionary psychologists proclaim that men always practiced polygamy, the need to impregnate so many women and so on always screeches inside my head. No one can truly know. all the innuendo leads to the other offshoot, pop psychology and self help books written by people with questionable qualifications (ie John Gray). It&#8217;s not surprising why humans still argue, and create wars, with all the suppositions that linger. At uni, I&#8217;d never really known a practicing academic to have, what others call, a real life outside of their lab rat trials. Many became animated when they discussed their precious rodents (what a lot of psychology is based on, only because it&#8217;s unethical to use humans). I&#8217;m always wary when any article is titled &#8216;Politically Incorrect,&#8217; only because it&#8217;s usually written by a fence sitter, one who is afraid to tread into darker waters.<br />
Mind you, many of the societies that are discussed (polygamous, polygynous &#8211; every single polyunsaturated idea on sexuality) have died out or have assimiliated into the typical nuclear family unit (on the outside, for appearances sake) those that survive aren&#8217;t based on western notions (of sexuality) or as sexuality is viewed today.</p>
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		<title>By: Dave Cake</title>
		<link>http://www.talkingsquid.net/archives/226/comment-page-1#comment-18823</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave Cake</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Jul 2007 03:31:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.talkingsquid.net/archives/226#comment-18823</guid>
		<description>No, I take it back, I hadn&#039;t read the last few items when I claimed the suicide bomber part was the silliest. It gets sillier. The idiotic stuff about sexual harrassment, for example.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No, I take it back, I hadn&#8217;t read the last few items when I claimed the suicide bomber part was the silliest. It gets sillier. The idiotic stuff about sexual harrassment, for example.</p>
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		<title>By: Dave Cake</title>
		<link>http://www.talkingsquid.net/archives/226/comment-page-1#comment-18822</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave Cake</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Jul 2007 03:26:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.talkingsquid.net/archives/226#comment-18822</guid>
		<description>For my money the silliest bit is the part about explaining Muslim suicide bombers in terms of being enabled by polygyny leading to unmarried men. So, how does that fit with suicide bombing being invented by the Tamil Tigers (a secular terrorist organisation), who often use women as suicide bombers?

I agree that evolutionary biology is a fascinating field that lends itself to misinterpretation by idiots.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For my money the silliest bit is the part about explaining Muslim suicide bombers in terms of being enabled by polygyny leading to unmarried men. So, how does that fit with suicide bombing being invented by the Tamil Tigers (a secular terrorist organisation), who often use women as suicide bombers?</p>
<p>I agree that evolutionary biology is a fascinating field that lends itself to misinterpretation by idiots.</p>
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		<title>By: Nick</title>
		<link>http://www.talkingsquid.net/archives/226/comment-page-1#comment-18818</link>
		<dc:creator>Nick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Jul 2007 03:11:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.talkingsquid.net/archives/226#comment-18818</guid>
		<description>As a journo that works in a scientific field that he isn&#039;t qualified in and (hopefully) does a pretty good job, can I say that it isn&#039;t completely necessary to have the specific scientific training in the discipline.

You can replace a lack of training with hard work and good ethics, on a story by story basis.

Get a trustworthy source, check your source, double check your source and then check what you&#039;ve written with your source to make sure you&#039;ve written what they think they&#039;ve said.

And then you need to avoid giving in to temptation to duchess the story to sex it up - well written science stories are interesting to a broader audience anyway, but if you&#039;re lazy and lack ethics it&#039;s an easy thing to cut corners.

(Although, in defence of some of my colleagues who are neither lazy nor unethical, I should also point out that writing good science stories takes time, and some publications simply don&#039;t give their science and medicine journos the resources they need to do a proper job. Having had to say: &#039;Fuck it, it&#039;ll have to do&#039; a couple of times as deadlines loom myself, I know how easy it is to be in that position.)

I think there is a place for magazines and news services that interpret what the research community is doing for the general community - it&#039;s just that Pschology Today appears to be doing a particularly execrable job of it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As a journo that works in a scientific field that he isn&#8217;t qualified in and (hopefully) does a pretty good job, can I say that it isn&#8217;t completely necessary to have the specific scientific training in the discipline.</p>
<p>You can replace a lack of training with hard work and good ethics, on a story by story basis.</p>
<p>Get a trustworthy source, check your source, double check your source and then check what you&#8217;ve written with your source to make sure you&#8217;ve written what they think they&#8217;ve said.</p>
<p>And then you need to avoid giving in to temptation to duchess the story to sex it up &#8211; well written science stories are interesting to a broader audience anyway, but if you&#8217;re lazy and lack ethics it&#8217;s an easy thing to cut corners.</p>
<p>(Although, in defence of some of my colleagues who are neither lazy nor unethical, I should also point out that writing good science stories takes time, and some publications simply don&#8217;t give their science and medicine journos the resources they need to do a proper job. Having had to say: &#8216;Fuck it, it&#8217;ll have to do&#8217; a couple of times as deadlines loom myself, I know how easy it is to be in that position.)</p>
<p>I think there is a place for magazines and news services that interpret what the research community is doing for the general community &#8211; it&#8217;s just that Pschology Today appears to be doing a particularly execrable job of it.</p>
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